WARNING - SOME OF THE CONTENT THAT FOLLOWS CONTAINS VULGAR LANGUAGE, CURSING AND POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL
CONYERS, Ga. -- The crime was unfathomable and the trail of lies that came after was almost as shocking.
In a three-part special report, 11Alive's Catie Beck showed never before seen evidence in the case of Tasmiyah and Jasmiyah Whitehead, 16-year-old twin sisters who are now convicted of brutally killing their own mother.
The twins are each serving 30 years for the crime. At first, the girls claimed innocence, but as interrogation tapes show, their story slowly changed over time.
Here are more details about the interrogations, video from the police car after their arrest and their confessions.
Editor's note: This series of investigations originally aired and was published in 2014. Dateline NBC is re-airing the story in December 2019.
SW: MALE SOCIAL WORKER
FSW: FEMALE SOCIAL WORKER
INTERVIEW ROOM 1
Rocking back and forth crying
D: "You can come sit over here sweetheart, you can come sit over here"
Tas kisses Jas, T:" Are you ok , we're going to be ok" J: "I want grandma"
J: "She's not going to come back"
J :"I want my mommy" (crying)
T: "Right now we have to be strong so they can catch the person who did it"
INTERVIEW TAPE 2
T : "You've gotta be strong because I'm going to make sure they find the person who did it"
J: "I want my momma"
T: "Did you thought I saw the body?
J: "I thought you did, I knew you came in the room, I didn't know you didn't come in the bathroom"
T: "I thought you knew I didn't see a body, I just asked you what it looked like"
Excessive crying, whaling
J: "I want my mommy" (baby voice)
INTERVIEW TAPE 3
T: "I heard Jas scream and then I saw blood all over the floor"
J: "I went in to her room and I saw the blood all over the floor and then I seen her and I touched her"
T "I looked and there was blood in front of the door like a line of blood, like someone had dragged her in there, like it is on tv"
D: "What time did y'all leave the house this morning?
J: "We missed the bus so we had to walk"
D: "You walked all the way to Rockdale?"
T: "It's not far"
INTERVIEW ROOM 5
D: "So you all didn't see her at all before you left for school?"
T: "Un uh no, she locked the door at night
J: "If we would have been there it would have never happened"
T: "Will they let us get a picture of her or something"
INTERVIEW ROOM 6
D:" Girls would your mom have opened the door for someone she didn't know"
T and J: Yeah, Yeah
Girls leave room to identify mom's boyfriends car on Facebook
INTERVIEW ROOM 8
Jas puts her head down
Tas kisses Jas and lays her head on top of her sister's
Girls sleep in silence on table
D: "Taz I need to see you in this other room please away from your sister"
INTERVIEW ROOM 9
D: "So you made it to all of your classes?"
D: "Is that the clothes you wore to school today"
D: "Any information that I might want to know that you haven't told me about"
D:" She would be drunk at that time?
J: "Maybe high, high, you know more when she's drunk than when she's high
Tas comes back in the room
D:" Are you wearing what you wore to school today"
SOCIAL WORKERS COME IN
SW : "I need you all to be as truthful with me as possible right now, yall didn't have anything to do with this"
Both twins: "No , nothing"
INTERVIEW ROOM 10
T: "I told her that I wish she were dead and she really did die I told her that plenty of times and she never died"
T: "That's crazy like that, I aint never killed nobody"
INTERVIEW ROOM 11
D: "Hey girls we're going to have to get you guys some clothes and I'll tell you why, you were in the crime scene"
D: "Let me see your hands and your arms" (to Jas)
D: "What happened here?"
J:" I got in to a fight"
D: "With who?
INTERVIEW ROOM 12
FSW: "You need to tell the truth, did you have anything to do with your momma?"
J: "No I swear to God I did not"
FSW: "This is serious
J: "I know that, I ain't hurt that much- I never told you I was going to kill her"
FSW: "I don't know, I really don't know
J: " Do you think we did it?
FSW: "No I don't think yall did anything"
J: "It just seems like the way you questioning us that y'all think we did it"
J: "We've been at school all day , we've been there all day, they can pull the records"
FSW: "Jas nobody is saying you did something, nobody is saying that"
INTERVIEW ROOM 15
Time lapse Jas up and down constantly freaking out without sister
Jas keeps getting up and trying to see her sister
J:"Where she at?"
D:"Be calm and sit down"
Jas crying and rocking back and forth
J: "You're always leaving me alone"
INTERVIEW ROOM 16
Jaz walks out of the room still whiny crying
D: "Sit down here"
J: "I don't want to be alone"
J: "Why do y'all have to separate us?"
D: "Because we need to talk to you separate, I know it sounds mean but it's really not"
J: "Y'all think we're lying?"
D: " I didn't say that"
D:"I need you to be calm and sit right there"
J:" I want my momma
Jas gets up again
Jas bites on her own hands in the room by herself
SMALL ROOM 2
Tas looks at bite marks on her hands
Tas looks at injuries on her arms
SMALL ROOM 4
Freeze frame, tas looks directly in to the camera
SMALL ROOM 5
Tas puts McDonalds bag back , puts head on lap
T: "I can't eat, mom is dead, stupid scratch, they are going to blame me because of a stupid scratch"
T: "I really want them to catch this person – please God"
SMALL ROOM 6
Tas lays across chairs and attempts to sleep
EXTENDED VIDEO OF GIRLS IN POLICE CAR AFTER ARREST:
Girl 1: "Ya'll need to go find the real person…" (sobs)
Girl 1: "They're talking about the d**** bite marks."
Girl 2: "Yeah, they're sayin that I have momma's teeth on my arm
Girl 2: "They say that our blood was found in the room with her blood.
Girl 1: "This is the b***sh**est a** (?) evidence in the world."
Girl 2: "I am not going down for something I did not do."
Girl 1: "Me either!"
Girl 2: "The day that you find a murder with my fingerprints on it, or something… (inaudible) please do that. Please find a murder weapon and then it will be different… For real."
Girl 1: "What the f*** we waiting for?"
Girl 2: "They havin f****** coffee and donuts and havin a jolly ol' time… They don't care.
Girl 2: "They didn't even read me my rights."
Girl 1: "They didn't read mine either!"
Girl 2: "Read my rights mother f*****."
EXTENDED VIDEO OF CONFESSIONS:
Jas Confession (Talking about the night of January 11th)
Detective: And when your mom came back, what happened in the house?
Jas: That night?
Detective: That night.
Jas: Umm, she was a little drunk so the same think always when she's drunk… she's talking crazy.
Detective: Now what do you mean by that? What was it that she had been saying?
Jas: When she drunk she just hallucinates and she sees things and she's not in her right mind.
Detective: Can you give me an example from that night?
Jas: Since we were kids we lived with our mom, and when our mom did come home she might be drunk or whatever, she would see things… she would think there were bugs on her or she would think there was an earthquake, things like that. So she would say, she would come get us out of bed or something and ask us to get the bugs off of her, things like that. That night, I don't know how she was that night, she was just drunk. I think she went in her room, got on the phone, came back and asked us questions like "why ya'll doin' this, why ya'll doin' that, why ya'll doin' this"… just antagonizing.
Detective: How did that night end?
Jas: Well, we angry, we mad, we didn't get along.
(Describing the morning of January 12th)
Jas: She just started waving the pot around, things like that, whatever, so I guess she was trying to hit us with the pot, you know she just threatening us an everything.
Detective: What is she saying?
Jas: She's still calling us whores and sluts and everything like that, and stupid, and everything like that and she threatened us, saying "We all going to die today". She was just being, mean to (inaudible).
Detective: How were ya'll reacting to her at this point in time?
Jas: At first I was shocked because I mean, we've been in arguments and fights but she never wanted to kill us I don't think. I didn't think she hated us. I mean I know she was upset but I didn't think she hated us.
Detective: What happens then?
Jas: Tas grabs the pot and she's (the mother) hitting us with the pot. She grabbed it from her, she snatched it from her or whatever.
Detective: Where is she hitting you with the pot?
Jas: Shoulder, breasts, not nothing fatal… I guess Tas always wanted to protect me so she grabbed the pot or whatever and when she grabbed the pot, they got into a little scuffle I guess, and I'm trying to get between them…
Detective: Still in the kitchen area?
Jas: We're still in the kitchen, we didn't move, and I'm trying to get between them and I diffuse it and there's a whole bunch of yelling, I can't even tell what was being said.
Detective: Your mom's yelling?
Jas: We all yelling, we all mad. Somehow, someway I don't know where she got it from, I don't even remember a knife block (inaudible) but she has a knife.
Detective: Who's she?
Jas: My mom.
Detective: YouR mom has the knife.
Jas: My sister has the pot now. She got it from her. And they scuffling and the pot is down. The pot on the floor, I don't know where the pot is. They are scuffling I guess you can say and Tas grabs the knife because she's pointing it towards us, jabbing I would say. She's screaming and we all loud I guess. And Tas grabs the knife from her and I guess when she grabbed it she turned and points it back towards her, that's how she got the cuts on her hand.
Detective: Who got the cuts on her hand?
Jas: My sister.
Detective: What kind of knife is it?
Jas: A kitchen knife. It wasn't a butter knife, it was a knife.
Detective: Have you used that knife, or that type of knife in the house before?
Jas: I didn't live with her a long time so I don't know.
Detective: Can you describe the knife?
Jas: It was long, pretty long. It was about this long (indicates about 8 inches with fingers).
Detective: Do you remember the color of the handle?
Detective: So your mom has grabbed the knife and Tas has grabbed at the knife and is turning the knife. Is it still in your mom's hand and Tas's hand?
Jas: Yes. Mom has the handle, she has the sharp end and she 's trying to point it towards her and not us.
Detective: What happens then?
Jas: Well, me and my sister both had on tank tops and shorts. She's (Tas) is trying to point it towards her but my mom is stronger than us.
Detective: What is your mom wearing?
Jas: A gown, a nightgown….
Detective: Ok so your mom is stronger than her, what happened then?
Jas: They're fighting over the knife of course, or whatever, and while she's fighting with the knife, I'm trying to get them both to get rid of the knife or whatever. So my mom is winning that battle with the knife or whatever, so I pick up the pot and hit her with the pot.
Detective: Hit your mom with the pot.
Detective: You're still in the kitchen area?
Detective: When you hit your mom with the pot, where'd you hit her?
Jas: In the head.
Detective: What did that do to her or how did your mom react?
Jas: She didn't, it bounced off her… it wasn't that strong.
Detective: What happened then?
Jas: I guess we all fighting, we all trying to fight for this knife that she had. She dropped the knife, I want to say she dropped the knife, I dropped the pot of course, and she has control of the knife. And me and Tas run to the dining area where the sofa and everything is. Now I guess it's a fist fight and we're trying to fight her even though she has the knife.
Detective: She has the knife?
Jas: She has the knife.
Detective: Let me stop you right here. At this point in time has anyone been cut? Is anybody bleeding? At this point in time?
Jas: At this point in time Tas has a cut on her chest, on her breast.
Detective: So Tas has a cut on her chest. Any other cuts that you're aware of?
Jas: Just the cuts on her hands since she was holding the knife.
Detective: At this point in time has your mom been cut?
Jas: I couldn't tell you.
Detective: Is your mom bleeding at this point in time that you're aware of?
Detective: So you guys run around to where the dinette is, tell me what happens next.
Jas: I'm just going to be clear, I don't remember everything. It comes in snatches. We're fist fighting or whatever and my sister and her are really fighting, punching each other, things like that. She's on top of my sister, choking her, I couldn't even tell you (inaudible) but umm, she's choking Tas and I pick up a vase and hit her with the vase.
Detective: How is she choking Tas?
Jas: With her hands. (Jas demonstrates how her mother's hands were around Tas' neck)
Detective: And they were face to face?
Jas: They were face to face.
Detective: What happened then?
Jas: I hit her with the vase to try to get her off my sister. Tas grabbed the knife.
Detective: Where did you hit her with the vase?
Jas: I guess in the shoulder blade area. The head, neck, somewhere.
Detective: How many times did you hit her with the vase?
Jas: One time.
Detective: What happened to the vase?
Jas: It shattered, I want to say it shattered.
Detective: When you hit your mom with the vase, how did she react or what did she do?
Jas: I guess she was stunned, I mean that's a big vase. She fell off of her (Tas), I'll say that. And Tas picked up the knife and I get on top of my mom and that's how I got that cut on my neck because she bit me. She bit me hard.
Detective: In hitting your mom with the vase as you recall back did that cause your mom to bleed at all?
Jas: Yeah, it did.
Detective: Do you recall what kind of wound she had?
Jas: I guess it cut her head, I don't know, a concussion I don't know.
Detective: At this point in time, Tas has picked up the knife and you're on top of your mom. What happened next?
Jas: She bit me in the chest and like I said I'm not that big so when she bit me she latched on to me and I tried to get her off because it hurts so Im trying to punch her I guess and then Tas stabbed her. She stabbed her.
Detective: At this point in time, how many times did Tas stab her?
Jas: Just once.
Detective: Did that free you from your mom?
Jas: Yeah… I think we backed up for a minute like "oh my God" and I don't think it was a deep cut because it didn't really phase her I don't think. I'm pretty sure it hurt, any kind of cut is going to hurt, but it wasn't like it was fatal or anything. We back up and she gets up and somehow I guess we get on the sofa now, I can't tell you exactly how, but we're fighting on the sofa now. Maybe she got up and rushed us or something and we pushed her on the sofa, I don't know.
Jas: She got up and was rushing towards us and either I or my sister push her down on the sofa. Somehow she bit my hand, this part, and this one really hurt so I think I was telling her to get off of me like "Stop! This really hurts". I told Tas that it hurts and then that when she stabbed her again.
Detective: Just once or multiple times?
Jas: I don't know. Probably multiple times.
Detective: The first time she stabbed her, before this point, do you know where she stabbed her?
Jas: I think it was her arm or her stomach, I don't know.
Detective: And this time now… Do you know where Tas stabbed her?
Jas: I don't know. I mean I know she had some stab wounds in her arm, or her upper arm or her stomach maybe…
Detective: What happened then?
Jas: We still fighting or whatever. I think she's trying to get control of the knife and um, she's trying to get control of the knife. She let go of my hand, and my hand is bleeding really bad…. We still fighting, my mom she's still moving or whatever. I think I got the medallion, one of my school awards. And I believe we're on the floor by the TV and I think I choked her with the medallion.
Detective: Up to this point, have you held the knife at all?
Jas: No, but I'm about to.
Detective: Ok, pick back up.
Jas: At his point I have the medallion, I don't know how I choked her with the medallion but I did.
Jas: What I think is that we rolled onto the floor cuz all three of us are all tangled up, it wasn't like me and my sister took turns.
Detective: So you're choking her with the medallion, what happens next?
Jas: She hit me hard, I think I was stunned. I want to say she backhanded me or something… I'm not a fighter you know, so I think I was stunned. Then I picked up the knife and I think I stabbed her but they wasn't cuts like they wasn't deep cuz I couldn't bring myself to do it.
Detective: Where did you stab her?
Jas: I think I stabbed her in her stomach. Maybe her arm, I don't know. It was multiple times but it wasn't deep.
Detective: Where is Tas when you had the knife?
Jas: I don't know. She's talking to us and she's saying "She's cold" and stuff like that. I guess she got that from a move, "She cold", and we stop and we all just taking a breather I guess. We panicking I guess. We panicking. We all beat up, I can't even tell you how bad we looked. And we turn our back for a minute and she go out the door so I know she wasn't badly hurt.
Jas: I guess we fighting again. She said "Ya'll are going to jail for the rest of ya'll life", which is something we already anticipated. She said "You better kill me now or I'm going to kill ya'll. Ya'll kill me and go to jail". At that time I was thinking "Jas you should've gone to the police". I guess we both scared and we thinking that if she leaves then we're going to jail for the rest of our lives and not thinking that if we kill her then we're going to jail for the rest of our lives too.
Detective: So ya'll still fighting?
Jas: Yeah because we don't see no other way. She wants to kill us and we like… you know…
Detective: Is she (the mother) still fighting?
Jas: Yeah, she aint that badly hurt not yet I guess. We all rush for the knife, the knife is on the floor. We rush for it and we push her back because we don't want her to get the knife. To this day I don't know why we put her in the tub, I can't even tell you why.
Detective: Before we get there, when you rush for the knife, does somebody get the knife?
Jas: Yeah my sister got the knife.
Detective: Then what happened?
Jas: There's another fight for the knife once again I'm trying to pull mom back because she wants to get it and she beat me up cuz she's trying to get it and I'm trying to not let her get it. Then we in her room which is a foot, a step, from the living room. Tas stabbed her multiple times.
Detective: At this point in time, why did Tas stab her?
Jas: Because she's trying to get the knife and she's overpowering me and beating me up so she's trying to get her off of me.
Jas: We were just angry and sad and I don't know… She's still talking.
Detective: What's she talking about?
Jas: That we're going to kill each other. That we all going to kill each other I guess.
Detective: So you're there at the bedroom, or just at the bedroom, Tas has stabbed her a few more times… What happened then?
Jas: She's pretty still now, so I guess we thought that she was dead. I guess we all talking…
Detective: You say "we all talking", is your mom still talking at this point?
Jas: (Nods) My momma still talking.
Detective: What's she say?
Jas: She hates us… she hates us. I guess the same thing, we're going to jail, we're going to jail.
Detective: What are you saying to her?
Jas: I'm sorry. I told her I was sorry. Not just sorry for things, but sorry for everything, that we couldn't get along and stuff.
Detective: What is Tas saying to her?
Jas: I don't know, you should ask my sister. I don't know what she said.
Detective: How does your mom's condition change from there?
Jas: I guess she's on the verge of dying now.
Detective: Can you describe what you're seeing?
Jas: There's a lot of blood… She's missing some of her braids—she had braids like mine but it was weave. I guess we pulled her hair and a braid came out. I'm missing hair, we all missing hair. And she just got a whole bunch of cuts on her and her head's bleeding I guess from the vase. And she's just bleeding everywhere all over the floor.
Detective: What does she say when she gets in the tub?
Jas: The same thing… You kill me now ya'll are going to go to prison because she's going to go to the police… "Kill me now or I'll kill ya'll". That we all going to jail.
Detective: …At any point in time did you think about getting her phone and calling the police or calling 911?
Jas: Yeah I couldn't find her phone. When she left that's when we were going to find the phone… I guess we just panicked. I guess our train of thought, and it shows how stupid it was, was that we cannot be caught, I'll put it like that. We could not be caught… that's where the story came from.
Detective: You put your mom in the tub and she said these things about the police and so forth and so on and what happened next?
Jas: She went under a couple times and that was it.
Detective: When "that was it", I'm going to use your words, when "that was it" what did you and your sister do?
Jas: I guess we were shocked. We could believe what we did. We cried, we cried for a long time. We argued a bit.
Detective: What did you argue about?
Detective: Let me ask you this, did ya'll have a difference of opinion on what you should do at that point?
Jas: I guess so, we didn't know what to do. We didn't know if we should go to the police or if we should go to the next door neighbor. We didn't know if we should go to school so we just panicked and cried.
Jas: I guess we just started planning on how we was going to cover it up I guess.
Detective: And what was the plan?
Jas: I guess there wasn't really a plan, I guess we just started cleaning up I guess.
Detective: What did you do to try to clean up?
Jas: We threw our clothes away and got a plastic bag out, a trashcan bag I guess, and put our clothes in it. The ones that were bloody and torn up… we got her purse, cell phone, and got the knife and the pot and put it all in the plastic bag.
Detective: Did you try to clean up any other way?
Jas: I want to say we tried to clean up the blood. I think there was some cleaning solution inside the kitchen but I think we just quit that idea.
Detective: It looked to me that there was some attempt to try to clean up the blood in the living room area. I could tell there was areas where it had been rubbed and a year ago when I could smell the carpet I could smell bleach so there was an attempt to clean the blood up and you realized that there was too much blood and you couldn't deal with that… what did ya'll do next?
Jas: I think we showered…. Got dressed for school and we just said that we would go to school and act like we just missed the bus and there was this whole crazy story.
Detective: Tell me what happens as you walk towards the townhome.
Jas: We already know what we're about to find. We just go in…
Detective: At this point in time do you already have a plan about what you're going to do when you got home?
Jas: No, we didn't know what we were going to do. We didn't know if we was gunna try to, I guess dispose, sounds so ugly or at least take her somewhere else or if we were gunna did what we did but I guess that was the plan we decided on.
Detective: Ya'll come home… tell me what happened.
Jas: It was, I don't want to say gruesome, but it was a shock, we knew what we were going to find, but it was still a shock. We took (?) to go see her, and to go look at her again. We didn't know what to expect. I half expect for her to be gone and for the police to be waiting for us. We walked in there, she was there… It's not something that we wanted to do. I guess we talked to her for a while. We just said we were sorry and that we loved her and stuff because I did love my mom.
Detective: Your mom had a lot of cut marks and stab wound to her back and the back of her neck. Do you know how she got those?
Jas: I told you I don't know where we stabbed her. I thought it was her stomach and her arm but it could've been anywhere. It wasn't like a planned thing. It was crazy, I mean it was fast, but it wasn't fast. We was fighting for a long time, but it was just the heat of the moment. We didn't know what we were doing.
Detective: Why did you put your mom's purse in the bag?
Jas: I don't know. I cant even tell you. See for a minute, in this crazy mind I was operating on, I was thinking of getting her debit card and all that kind of stuff and leaving and not even thinking that the debit card can be traced. I was just thinking about leaving…. About skipping the country, not that a 16 year old can go somewhere, but I don't know why I got her purse. Maybe it was because I thought you wouldn't catch it, I don't know.
Detective: At any point in time during the fight did you think of running away… stop participating in the fight…
Jas: My state of mind at the time was defend yourself. It wasn't like it was fight on the street, it was more a fight until somebody dies. I mean we ran to the living room, I don't know why, she was there. Like I said I wasn't going to go to the police because we were already having trouble with them. Through all these years and all that trouble, they always believed her, it was never us getting believed. I didn't have no faith in ya'll, in the system, so I guess we believed we had to protect ourselves the best way we knew how.
Jas: If I could do it all over again, I guess I would've called the police or I would definitely give my life for hers. I'm sorry and I miss her. It's not how ya'll are trying to make it seem. I didn't hate her. And Tas didn't hate her either… I guess it was just the heat of the moment and the anger between all three of us.
Tas Confession (Referring to the night of January 12th)
DA: What made you believe that your mom was drunk and high?
Tas: Cuz I know her and I've witnessed how she acts when she's high and drunk
DA: How was she acting?
Tas: Well, when she either drinks or smokes she gets like this paranoia. So she says stuff like "Check your doors"; "Keep checking the door"; "Check under the bed"; "Everybody get in the closet"; "Everybody get out the closet"; "Go check the windows"; "The police out there?"; "The army comin'"; stuff like that. Thoughts don't hold for a long time. So one minute she'll be talking about the police comin', then she'll talk about cookin' something, then shes talking about car parked (?), stuff like that. And then she has this thing with her mouth (Tas demonstrates moving her jaw side to side) like that.
DA: Was she that way? Was she making those comments that night?
Tas: Yeah she came in saying all that I already knew. So at one point she was like "Lock the door", so we did and then she was like "Unlock the door". And then she was acting like that so I kept my door locked and she got made about the door being locked and then she continued with (complaining about) the laundry.
(Referring to the morning of January 13th)
Tas: …Jas kind of just walked to the kitchen, she was rigght behind me. My mom was in there, I don't know if she had already been asleep or if she was still up from the night.
DA: But when you went to the kitchen, your mom was there. What was she doing?
Tas: Maybe she was getting ready to make something to eat but she wasn't really standing that far back in the kitchen, she was like where the microwave was at, in between the microwave and the refrigerator.
DA: So she's there in the kitchen, you went in the kitchen, did Jas go in the kitchen as well?
DA: What happened then?
Tas: She saw us, shes starts cursing and stuff, I think she was mad about us being late but she didn't tap on the door to get us up but I think she knew we was late and she was not going to do (inaudible)… and she had the pot and she was kind of like (inaudible) (demonstrates waving her hand back and forth) and she just kind of swinging it around and stuff. And I was just leaning against the counter…
DA: At this point you said she is mad and you think she's mad because you guys got up late for school.
Tas: That or maybe because it happened right before, you know, knowing that she wasn't supposed to be drinking and stuff…
DA: At that point, you said that she was mad, but were y'all mad, and I'm not talking about later on, I'm talking about first thing in the morning…
Tas: I was still asleep, so no, this wasn't really anything new. She's a shouter… so shes shouting
Tas's Attorney: You said that she said something…
Tas: She said "You not gonna do everything that y'all want to do". Like you're not just going to sit here and do whatever you want to do.
DA: Tell me again what she was doing with the pot.
Tas: She was talking and kind gesticulating (?) with it… You know, like that (swinging her wrist around)
DA: What happened then?
Tas: She was just kind of doing that and then I'm just leaning against the counter not really saying anything. Jas moved forward, she's not moving forward towards her, she was like behind me, so she kind of like stepped forward and then she (the mother) stepped forward and swung the pot like that and Jas kind of put up one arm like that (Tas demonstrates) and after that I'm not really sure.
DA: Can you tell me what happened next?
Tas: I took the pot from her and swung it on the floor… I kind of put it down because I didn't want her to hurt Jas.
DA: Alright so you took the pot away from your mom, what happened then?
Tas: She charged forward, not at me though, at Jas.
DA: When your mom swung the pot and Jas put her arm up, did your mom try to hit her again after Jas blocked it?
Tas: Yeah, when she did like this (Tas demonstrates drawing her arm back) that's when I grabbed it.
DA: You grabbed the pot away from your mom and swung it across the floor.
Tas: I didn't throw it, I just kind of put it down.
DA: Then you said your mom went at Jas? What happened then?
Tas: She just, I'm not really sure, its not really vivid, I don't really remember.
DA: At what point do your remember?
Tas: I remember her just talking, calling Jas names and stuff.
DA: Were y'all still in the kitchen?
Tas: Yeah it was the kitchen but the whole thing was not far back in the kitchen, it was more toward the front even though the kitchen's not very big, it was in the archway. We were right there. It wasn't like she was going to stop and stuff… I know she turned around like toward me cuz at that point she was facing toward the archway and I was still behind her. I thought she was going to stop at first…
DA: Was Jas mad at this point?
Tas: She wasn't saying anything, she wasn't yelling.
DA: At this point were you mad?
Tas: Hmmm…. I wasn't happy, I felt like a sense of I'm just tired of it. You know it's something you deal with… It's just, I don't know…
DA: Where did it go from here?
Tas: To the living room.
DA: What happened in the living room?
Tas: Oh gosh…. I left some stuff out.
DA: That's ok, just tell me.
Tas: I'm sorry, I guess I'm nervous, I'm sorry. When we were in the kitchen, I had took the pot from her, that's when she grabbed the knife and turned around and said "Get back" but she didn't keep the knife in her hand.
DA: What happened with the knife?
Tas: I took it out her hand too.
DA: When she picked up the knife and said "Get back", did y'all move back?
Tas: Yeah, we were scared.
DA: And then what happened? How were you able to get the knife?
Tas: Because, like I said, the kitchen is so small, we couldn't really stand side by side, but I was on the side of her and she wasn't pointing it at me, she was pointing it at Jas, and she was like "Get back". And then I came up from the side and kind of grabbed her wrist. And I was holding it trying to hold her hand.
Tas: She was still yelling and stuff and calling us whores and sluts.
DA: At this point in time are you yelling back at her?
DA: What happened next?
Tas: I'm not really sure how it occurred. If she, she's kind of turned around and just started again like… I'm not sure… I don't remember… it's more like, I don't remember like a timeline, it's more like snapshots for me.
DA: Whatever you remember, just tell me what you remember, what's the next concrete snapshot of what's happening?
Tas: She went back to the kitchen and that's when it kind of seemed it was over, like she went back to the kitchen and (Tas shrugs). Umm, and then she came back and she was saying some stuff like "We all gonna die" or something. And she it (the knife) in her hand…
DA: Where's your sister at this point?
Tas: Just in the living room by the couch… I guess by the couch.
DA: So she came back with the knife in the living room, what happened then?
Tas: I'm not sure the first thing that happened… The next thing I remember. I guess she was like… I remember being on the ground and she was on top of me and I remember Jas being behind her and I don't… I know the knife is the most important part but I don't remember it so much. And I remember her being on top of Jas, and I remember the couch, and I remember the point where she was like she forced it down, I forced it up, I forced it down, I remember that.
DA: Who has the knife when you see that in your mind?
Tas: My mom.
DA: And she's trying to do what with it?
Tas: Like she's on top of Jas and her knees (Tas rubs her stomach) like pinning someone down and she was kind of forcing it down and Jas has her hands (up) and I cam behind her and grabbed her arms and stuff and she kind of rolled off Jas and rolled onto me. And this was right about the time when she got off Jas and Jas got up and she was like fighting with me and I was trying to get her off me and I like kicked her.
DA: Does your mom have the knife at this point?
Tas: Mhmm (Yes)
DA: And she's on you and you've kicked her, what happened then?
Tas: I think Jas hit her with the vase. But it was like (Tas shrugs), she didn't even blilnk.
DA: Back in the living room, Jas has hit your mom with the vase, your mom is on top of you and she still has the knife. What happened then?
Tas: When she (Jas) has stopped with the vase, she grabbed the medallion, the necklace.
DA : What did she do with the medallion?
Tas: She put it around her neck to pull her off.
DA: Was Jas able to pull her off?
Tas: She pulled her, I pushed her but like as soon as she got off me she sprang to her feet and she came at Jas because Jas was standing up and I was on the ground.
DA: Did she go at Jas?
Tas: Yeah she did.
DA: Ok, what happened next?
Tas: I'm not sure…
DA: I understand. What do you remember that happened next? What's the next snap shot?
Tas: I was just so tired, they were just kind of going at it… I kept telling her to stop… "Just stop, just stop, just stop". And the whole time she was talking and yelling and stuff.
DA: At this point in time where you mad?
Tas: (Nods) Yeah.
DA: Based on what you observed, was Jas mad at this point?
Tas: Sad… I guess, I don't really remember.
DA: What do you remember next? Did your mom stop when you yelled "Stop"?
DA: What did she continue to do?
Tas: She was like kind of like hitting with the black part (of the knife). And then I know Jas got the knife from her, Jas got the knife from her, and it was just like, I don't know, it wasn't like a double team thing, it was like… I was just trying to stop her from hurting Jas. When Jas got the knife, I just kind of stood there and then…
DA: What did you guys do with the knife?
Tas: (Crying) My mom came towards her.
DA: When your mom came towards her, what did Jas do with the knife?
Tas: She was just like… my mom grabbed towards the knife and she had like… this is the only one I really remember… and he had it in her hands and you know trying to turn it and she was trying to turn it.
DA: Who had it in her hands?
Tas: They both was holding on to it, and she was trying to turn it towards Jas. I didn't even do anything at this point.
DA: What do you mean you didn't do anything at this point?
Tas: I was just…
DA: Watching what was happening, is that what you mean?
Tas: I wouldn't even say that… I just didn't know what to do.
DA: What do you remember next?
Tas: I was trying to get my mom… Jas was kind of against the wall by the door… My mom's door… (Tas's attorney: "Into the bedroom?") Mhmm… she had her against the wall so I had her shoulders trying to pull her off of her.
DA: Pull who off of who?
Tas: My mom off of Jas because she had her against the wall. And she was (mumbles), I'm not sure.
DA: Had your mom been stabbed at this point?
Tas: I don't know.
DA: When did you first see blood? When did you first realize your mom had been stabbed?
Tas: I don't remember, I remember seeing blood… We… I guess when her… I don't remember.
DA: At this point you said that your mom has Jas up against a wall and you pulled her away… What's your next snapshot? What do you remember next?
Tas: She's on the floor.
DA: Who's on the floor?
Tas: My mom
DA: Where's Jas?
Tas: I don't even remember.
DA: What's your mom doing on the floor?
Tas: Talking. Calling us the B word and ungrateful.
DA: Is your mom stabbed at this point? Do you remember?
Tas: There was no puddle of blood or anything so at that point, maybe looking back, no, but I thought it was over because she had calmed down.
DA: Was it over?
DA: What happened next?
Tas: I left the room and when I came back she was gone.
DA: When you left the room, where did you go?
Tas: To my room.
DA: Why did you go to your room?
Tas: Just to kind of separate you know?
DA: Are you hurt at this point?
Tas: I had hair pulled out, probably bite marks.
DA: Your mom bit you at this point.
Tas: Yeah she had bit me more than once and she bit me again too.
DA: I'm going to get there but at this point you'd already been bitten.
Tas: Bitten, and you know, just tired, just really tired… Me and Jas was sitting there and she was still talking.
DA: What happened then?
Tas: She leaned forward and the ottoman, the little black thing was in front, and she leaned toward it. And I didn't notice that the knife was on it, just sitting right by it, and she leaned forward and grabbed it and then she jumped up.
DA: Then what happened?
Tas: She jumped up toward Jas and I'm not sure if Jas got cut or not but we were surprised. And then I got up and got behind her and tried to get the knife from her again but she didn't let it go. And then she was kind of elbowing me from the back because I was behind her. Again I was like "just stop, just stop" and then she said something again, like we were going to die.
DA: What did she say?
Tas: She said something again like we were gonna die.
DA: And then what happened?
Tas: I remember like being by the couch and stuff. I remember at one point she had me, like with her arm around my neck. I think I bit her or something.
DA: Where'd you bite her do you remember?
Tas: It had to be somewhere like on her hand…
DA: Then what happened that you remember?
Tas: Jas was trying to get her off me and she was…
DA: Who has the knife at this point?
Tas: At this point, I don't know. I just remember kind of like being off the couch, trying to get (inaudible) with my feet.
DA: What happened next that you remember?
Tas: I remember when she was on the wall again…
DA: Which wall?
Tas: The wall by the bedroom… Jas and my mom were by the wall again and I was… I don't know who got the knife first but it was by the wall again. And she had her teeth gritted and she was still saying stuff. She just talked the whole time. I don't remember, I really don't remember her being stabbed.
DA: Did Jas stab your mom?
Tas: Only once that I saw.
DA: Did you stab your mom?
Tas: I don't remember stabbing her.
DA: Well you may not remember but do you think you stabbed your mom?
Tas: I don't think I did but I don't remember a lot from that day.
DA: How did it end?
Tas: She was on the floor again… we was all on the floor.
DA: How did you all get on the floor?
Tas: I guess it was like when she would come at me, Jas would try to get her off. When she would come at Jas, I would try to get her off Jas. We was on the floor. Nobody is on top of anybody or anything. Crying and stuff… and she was still talking but she stopped really arguing.
DA: How did she end up on the floor, how did she get to that spot?
Tas: No… no… I'm not sure (inaudible) like I said it was like a blur but I just have snapshots in my brain.
DA: You said she's still talking, what's she saying?
Tas: (Sigh) "What kind of kids are y'all"… something about how she's really supposed to be our mom… and then, like I said, there's certain stuff I remember hearing but there was a lot of stuff she said cuz like I said the whole time she's just talking.
DA: Where's the knife at this point?
Tas: I don't remember.
DA: What kind of knife was it?
Tas: it was like black, black handle, a regular knife, like a kitchen knife.
DA: And during the whole confrontation, was there ever more than one knife or only one knife?
Tas: (Crying) Just one.
DA: Your mom's on the floor, she's still talking, what happened then?
Tas: I was kneeling… and at this point it's still not even real. She said something, I didn't hear her, and then Jas said she said "Take her to the tub". So I think I had her hands and Jas had her feet, kind of like a joint effort.
DA: Had your mom still been moving? Was she still physically able to move at all at that point?
Tas: I'm not sure.
DA: The reason I'm asking is because could she have gotten up and crawled or walked to the bath tub at that point.
Tas: I'm not sure. She wasn't like stock still or anything.
DA: Was she in pain?
Tas: She didn't seem like… she was aight. Through the whole thing she didn't scream or "Ouch"… I don't know if it was adrenaline or what.
DA: So you had her hands?
Tas: I think I was at the top.
DA: And Jas had her feet.
Tas: Yes, she was heavy.
DA: And what did y'all do?
Tas: WE put her in the tub.
DA: how were y'all able to get her to the bathroom? Did y'all pick her up off the floor or did you have to drag her?
Tas: It seemed like both…
DA: And while you're in that process, did your mom say anything or make any sounds?
DA: What was she saying?
Tas: She was just saying, you know, something about warm water maybe or she was cold or something… My moms already like… it was an out of body experience you know what I mean?
DA: So you drag your mom to the bathroom… When you got to the bathroom, what happened there?
Tas: We just put her in the water was turned on and then Jas stayed and I left and I went to close the back door.
DA: So during this last part, the back door had been open?
DA: After you close the back door, did you go back to the bathroom?
Tas: No, the door wasn't like wide open, it was just like open and I just stayed there and looked around at everything.
DA: When you left the bathroom, had your mom already died or was she still alive?
Tas: She was still talking.
DA: She was still talking when she was in the tub?
DA: What did she say in the tub?
Tas: She said something so weird, she said something about my grandpa and she said something that you got raped and I tried to keep to keep Dwayne away because he was always all up on y'all… It didn't really have anything to do with anything it was just like she wanted to tell something (?)
DA: When did you realize that your mom was dead? Or how did you realize that your mom was dead?
Tas: Well, Jas came back out in the room… I didn't ask her and she didn't say. I don't know.
DA: At some point in time that morning you did realize your mom was dead.
DA: Jas said that when your mom died you two argued about something. Do you remember what you two argues about?
Tas: I don't think we necessarily argued. It wasn't really an argument.
DA: So your mom's dead and she's back in the bathroom, so what'd y'all do then?
Tas: Umm, she went to the kitchen, Jas went to the kitchen and I just was still in the living room and she got a bottle of something. She was just kind of frantic and she was like "What are we going to do?" but there was nothing we could really… there was so much…
Tas's Attorney: A bottle of something? What do you mean a bottle of something?
Tas: Like cleaning solution… a cleaning agent.
DA: And did she try to clean up?
Tas: Yeah I think she poured the whole bottle or something…
DA: Did you try to clean up some?
Tas: No I didn't wipe nothing down or anything.
DA: What happened then? She tried to clean…
Tas: I don't even know, it was like she was doing something just to be doing it… we both was crying.
DA: What happened then?
Tas: We went back to my room. And we started putting our clothes on.
DA: What did you do with the clothes you already had on?
Tas: We took them off and Jas took them.
DA: Did the clothes that you had on, the shorts and the t-shirt, did they have blood on them?
Tas: I don't remember. I think my shirt was dark anyway, like black or red.
Tas's Attorney: What'd you do with the clothes.
Tas: I just took them off and I went to my bathroom.
DA: What ultimately happened to the clothes you had on?
Tas: Jas put them in a bag.
DA: Did anything else go in that bag?
Tas: She put the knife, the pot, and she didn't really give me an inventory of it and then we left.
DA: Did she put it all in the bag? Did you put anything in the bag?
Tas: No… I gave her like my clothes and stuff but I didn't put it in there.
DA: What was the purpose of putting the stuff in the bag?
Tas: I didn't know about the bag till we got to the front door.
DA: Obviously y'all planned to do something after your mom died. What was the plan for the day?
Tas: It wasn't like… People always say twins have like… There was nothing really spoken, it was just like… I don't know, I don't want to call it a twin thing because it's not, it's just aiding each other (?) it wasn't no plan going through my head I was just thinking about (inaudible).
DA: Where was your mom's phone during all this?
Tas: I guess in her room. I never seen it.
DA: Did you ever try to find the phone during the course of the scuffle, or the struggle, or the fight with your mom?
DA: Do you know if Jas tried to find the phone?
Tas: I don't know.
DA: Did your mom every try to find the phone?
Tas: No. She never like ran toward her room or anything.
DA: Do you recall where your mom charged the phone at the time or where she kept her charger?
Tas: No, so much stuff had changed since we had been there.
DA: And you had only been there about a week… So, things were put in a bag and when y'all left that morning did y'all go out through the garage, through the back door…
Tas: The front door.
DA: The front door, its really the side door but I guess its really the main door. Y'all went out the main door and y'all went where?
Tas: We went toward the right, we went toward the right, we went out the back gate, the side gate.
DA: And when you went out the back gate, did you still have the bag?
DA: What happened with that bag?
Tas: Um, when we first got out there we didn't really know where we was going so we just kind of stood there then we walked down near the car line to see the road to see where the road led and then we came back she was like, there were these men outside and they were working on those things with the machines where they go all the way up with the lines… and there were some guys there. They was talking to her, I don't know if she asked or not, but they was talking to her, and she put the bag inside the dumpster.
DA: After the bag was put inside the dumpster what did y'all do?
Tas: We walked… instead of going to the right we went straight we kind of we got to the gas station and we got a ride.
DA: You got a ride to school?
Tas: Yes sir.
DA: And that was your plan, to go to school that day?
Tas: There wasn't really a plan.
DA: After your mom died…
Tas: No we just, like I said, there was nothing really spoken. I wasn't like "Ok now lets go to go to school" it was just like, it felt like unreal it felt like we were just trying to go on normal.
DA: And when you got to school, what did you throw away at school?
Tas: A paper towel.
DA: Where'd the paper towels come from?
Tas: Inside the man's car.
DA: A roll of paper towels… Why did you take the paper towels?
Tas: It was just like at my feet, and then I asked him…. They were just at my feet and he was like "Oh, you can just throw those away." So I just got out the car and just took it.
DA: …What was the plan, what were you going to do when you got home from school that day?
Tas: There was no plan. Throughout the whole day we didn't talk till we got on the bus and… I wasn't expecting this to really be as is, throughout the day at school it felt like the police were just going to come or something like that. That's how it felt. I didn't expect to get home that day and then when I did, we walked in and it was like seeing it all over again and it was like it really happened. It just kind of then I said I was going to call the police and of course we didn't have any phones so I went out to go to the neighbor's and the police called.
DA: Did you search for your mom's phone, because we found it on the bed.
DA: When you got off the bus that day, when you came home from school and got off the bus, did you see the sheriff's deputy in the neighborhood?
DA: When you came out of the townhome, what were you coming out to do?
Tas: Go to the neighbor's house.
DA: And tell me, when you came out did you see the Rockdale County Sheriff's Deputy?
DA: And then you ran to him.
Tas: Yes, yes sir.
DA: When in the course of the altercation with your mom did you get cut?
Tas: I'm not sure. I don't remember feeling it till afterwards.
DA: And from what I have seen, you had bite marks on your arms and your hands (Tas agrees and indicates where she was bitten) and you had a cut on your finger, did you have any other injuries from the fight with your mom?
Tas: Yes, on my side.
DA: And what was on your side?
Tas: A cut.
DA: A cut from a knife? A scratch?
Tas: Uh huh.
DA: A cut from a knife. Besides that cut and the one on your finger, did you have any other cuts?
Tas: Umm I had… my boob hurted. It was just really red at this point and then it kind of formed and my hair, my neck hurted.
DA: The medallion, how did it end up in one of the tennis shoes in your room?
Tas: I don't know
DA: What was the medallion for?
Tas: I got that when I was in elementary school, I think it was a field day.
DA: Your mom on her left hand had a lot of bruises and down her arm and down her hand had a lot of cuts across the top of her hand. Do you know why she was cut on her hand? Did she have anything in her hand that you were trying to get out of her hand? Do you know why she had those cuts?
Tas: Like I said at one point she had, I don't know if it came from that, Jas scratched her or I scratched her, I'm not sure. I think I said at one point she was holding the knife backwards so I don't know if it happened then. I don't remember.
Tas's Attorney: Items in the yard…
DA: There were two photographs, a clutch, a little black clutch, and a necklace that were found out in the yard. Do you know how they got out there?
Tas: (Nods) After the sheriff came in and we was all standing there and (inaudible) at the kitchen, and then he said get something of your mom's, I don't remember his exact words, but he said get something of your mom's… (Inaudible).. I know I had got the two pictures from the mirror, she had pictures (around the mirror), I got the two pictures, and Jas got the clutch and the necklace. I don't remember having that and then I had them in my hand and she had them in her hand and then we got out toward the front again and she like broke down and I was standing over her like holding her and stuff and I guess we dropped the stuff, I didn't really think about it… That's when all the people came.
DA: Anything else I haven't asked you that you want me to know that happened that day?
Tas: (Crying) Just I really wish it didn't happen like that and I wish I could've solved something. I do I wish… (sobs) sorry… It was just confusion and turmoil and it never stopped.
Tas's Attorney: Were you aware that you had court coming up.
Tas: (Nods) Yeah, Monday. That was the whole point, we knew that Judge Shiner (?) said when you come to court on Monday we'll see what we're going to do. When we went home, me and Jas talked and me and my mo talked and at this point she didn't talk to her but me and mom talked and we were crying and we said we were going to give it our best shot. So then, the first time the police were called, I don't even remember they was called about. Oh wait, go back. Judge Shiner said write down all the things that happened, stuff like that, all the things that happened, just let me know and you know report it, everything that happened that you thought we need to know. And then that first night the police was called because it was that day that she came home with some wings and fries and she didn't bring us any and she sat there and ate it in front of our faces and then it kind of.. we went to my room and shut ourselves in and she got really mad, I don't even remember what happened, but then the police got called….
Tas's Attorney: This is upon your return from juvenile court, the police got called…
Tas's Attorney: And then the police got called again.
Tas: Yes, the police got called again, the party night…
Tas's Attorney: But the question I have for you is did you think on Monday that the judge was going let you stay with your mom?
Tas: I thought that he would see that everything, like when she came home that night and stuff, like she wasn't really taking it serious, that he was just saying that he wanted to see us again. Me and Jas just kept saying, "We just gotta deal with this till Monday". I think that people think that I hate my mom, I don't hate my mom. I love my mom very much. She had problems but…